<div class='quotetop'>Цитата</div>LOLIf Hitler killed all Jews, Putin can kill all Georgians?[/b]
Mister Putin ride on war-tripod and kills all Georgians! Do you beleave?
Russia has not any questions or tributes for georgian nation, but Russia has some question for Georgian government, because Saakashvili performed war crime.
USA w/o UN-resolution named Hussein war criminal, prisoned and kilied him. May by it was right solution. But Saakashvili is same war criminal as Hussein.
note: Georgia - multynational country, but "Misha and Co"* try to make it mononational
*) Читается Мишико
From history
In 24.06.1992 was scripting a peace memorandum betwen Gergia and a Southern Osetia and in 14.07.1992
the mix russian-osetian-georgian force are based to margin to prevent the killing. And by this memorandum the Russia is a Guarntee to Osetia against war. Now the Georgea break rhis memorandum and began the war against Osetia. And Russia replay too. As a you, i am against the war on Geargia native lands, and i am thinking the Russia not do this. He only destroy some military objects and forces. You can not believe me, but i think the winner is republicans in USA. They loose to Obama, but now they can win the presedents election. And what about Saakashvili - all known he is a slave to USA current goverments. This war is not for simple Georgean, not for Russia, and not for Osetia. The winner is only USA - he now can say everywhere that the Russia is a evil and They are only one guarant to other.
<div class='quotetop'>Цитата</div>Why? Do tell.people are dying there because instead of bringing peace Russia wants this region to be as unstable as it is possible[/b]
Фан с нашфанатиков:
It's only 42 years left till the US wins a time/score victory, Russia is getting desperate
(Осталось только 42 года до победы США по счету, Россия отчаянно пытается наверстать)
<div class='quotetop'>Цитата</div>People are dying there because Georgian government performed ossetian genocide. I think that without russian peace-kippers georgians can killed more ossetian civilians.people are dying there because instead of bringing peace Russia wants this region to be as unstable as it is possible.[/b]
More than 30000 ossetian becomes refugees, nearby 1400 ossetians was killed. Population of South Ossetia was 120000.
One fourth of south osselian leaves their fatherland and comes to Russia, not in Georgia!!! Why?
US military surprised by speed, timing of Russia military action
Чтим заветы Суворова то... оказывается.
У нас один мужик в офиса работал в Нью-Йорке трейдером во время нападения на Ирак. И комментарии по телевизору и в офисе были примерно одинаковы: "Бух... Щас мы их замочим... Бухх... Проклятый Саддам..."
A guy from our office worked as a treder in New York at the time of Iraq invasion. The TV and fellow office guys comments were very much the same: "Boom... Kill em all... Boom... Damn Saddam..."
А вы говорите, общечеловеческие ценности.
Leszek, I agree with many things you say. Russia doesn't really care about ossetians, neither does Georgia. These are just power games. An innocent people are dying because their governments want to gain some points with other leaders (one leader in particular). I also agree that the best thing for Ossetia would be declaring its independence. However, it's not going to happen in the near future. Economically this region isn't self sufficient. Ossetia IS part of Georgia by the law, but as we all know, those who have a big enough army can position themselves above the law. Americans did it in Iraq, russians do it in Georgia. It was wrong then, it is wrong now.
But this is only natural that russian people don't accept your opinion. Someone brought yesterday an interesting quote in other topic, which I liked. Not the accurate translation, but the general meaning is: “Yeah, it's wrong. But it's my country and I want it to win". This summarizes it all. You can’t expect from russians wishing for lost, and you can't expect from georgians wishing for their lost either. You have to be a crazy masochist to want you country to lose no matter what, but in the same time nobody should allow to wash his brain to the point when he can't see the difference between right and wrong. I have a feeling, that many people did allow it.
The real picture of this war we'll learn after awhile. And then, hopefully, morality and human rights issues will come back to haunt us.
Those who betrayed their own citizens who believe their salvation mistake, in my opinion, it is advisable to deny citizenship. The actions of Russia against the fascist dictatorship Saakashvili fair and justified. Georgians sorry, but the population has the Government, which earned
I tried to understand Russian pont of view, I've talked quite long with ot4e and (correct me if I'm wrong) the general idea is: Georgians attacked civilians in South Ossetia, we moved in to protect civilians, we fought only with army.
The thing is that I can't see anywhere evindence of such theory. In all tv coverages I can see that Russian shelled and bombarded Georgian cities, not the opposite. I saw photos from South Ossetia on Times, BBC and CNN and there is no photo of destroyed city as Russians say. On the other side it's the opposite - I saw photos of destroyed building in Gori, there are reported deaths of civilians, even one Dutch reported was killed and several wounded, so it's not just a story.
I wonder what if after few weeks it will show up that Russian agencies lied and there was no atrocities commited by Georgians? Will at least one Russian agree with me that it was not a "enforcing of peace" only full scale invasion of Georgia?
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For example BBC
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/in_pictures/7556784.stm #4
http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/russian/video/new...000/7554306.stm
Georgians attacked Tshinvali by means of heavy artillery and GRAD. 100% fact!!!
Osetian fotos
#2
Try compare with Gori and Poti.
How about that? Russian bombs?
Of course that I know that both sides did attacks. The thing is that Russians claim that only Georgians are using heavy artillery to attack cities and state some exaggerated numbers like a 1000 of killed in Tskhinvali (how to write it, in Polish it's Cchinwali).
So, I found for example such info on Human Rights Watch: http://www.hrw.org/
http://www.hrw.org/english/docs/2008...eorgi19594.htm
<div class='quotetop'></div>So as you can see Russians shelled Georgians with such weapons. Try to find some independent source that it was the opposite (which I don't say that didn't happened).Georgia/Russia: Use of Rocket Systems Can Harm Civilians
On August 11, 2008, Human Rights Watch in South Ossetia saw Russian military trucks, including at least two Uragan 16-round multiple rocket launchers and four trucks with rockets, being moved toward South Ossetia’s administrative border with Georgia. The Uragans were among numerous pieces of heavy artillery being moved by the Russian army toward Georgia on August 11.
The soldiers who operated the trucks told Human Rights Watch that they were moving toward the Georgian border and were waiting for the orders to strike. Meanwhile, Russian television on August 12 aired video images of Grad and Uragan rockets being fired into the Kodori Gorge, an area of Abkhazia that had been under Georgian control.
In addition to high-explosive fragmentation warheads, both 122MM Grad (Hail) and 220MM Uragan (Hurricane) rockets also have cluster munition warheads that contain submunitions. Grads and Uragans are designed to affect areas rather than specific targets.
“These are all indiscriminate weapons when used in populated areas, as they cannot be targeted against only military targets and therefore risk causing unnecessary harm to civilians,” said Holly Cartner, Europe and Central Asia director at Human Rights Watch. “They simply shouldn’t be used in areas where there are civilians.”
Human Rights Watch learned that about 1,500 people, almost all of the population of the Kodori Gorge, had been evacuated before the shelling started. [/b]
One more thing - HRW states that it has emissaries on both sides of conflict. Yet it says that numbers of casualties given by Russian are not correct. The same says Radio Free Europe: http://www.rferl.org/content/War_At_Home_S...ia/1190090.html
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Leszek, check the map next time. Uragan from Southern Ossetia bobmbing opsitions in Abkhazia - that takes quite an imagination. Why not assume that Putin bombed himself from Moscow? And why do you think Abkhaz do not have their own mass rocket firing systems? It's not rocket science, sorry for the pun.
Yes, Russia shelled Georgian troops. They started their aggression by bombing Russian peacekeepers' barracks, killing at least 15 people with the very first attack. It's war Georgia started, and they have to pay for it.
Lastly, there is a difference between bombing small military camp after Georgian aggression (regular military action) and destroying a 30-thousand city without warning.
One more important thing you might not have known: by the ceasefire agreement between Georgia and Osetia in 1992 (since when Ositia as de facto independent from Georgia, i.e. it wasn't a part of Georgia even more than 1 year) Russia is empowered as the peace guaranteeing side. Georgia signed the agreement, mind it! Now, if your task is to guarantee the peace, what should you do when one side mass-attacks the other and your peacekeeping forces too?
Also, HRW and RFE aren't unbiased organizations, whose arguments you could accept at their word.
I would be glad if you responded to the comment instead of making series of new weak arguments, please.
Leszek!
Please comments this!
Please comments my previous post!
Lexad - why do you assume that the same artillery seen in South Ossetia was shelling Georgians in Abkhasia? It's not stated anywhere, those are two independent facts.
It says that Russians shelled Kodori Gorge where lived 1500, not the Georgian soldiers camp.
In my opinion there was no mass-attacks as you are claiming. It's only propaganda of Russian news agency (which are dependant on Russian government). It's really easy to check it - if a city was destroyed as you claim, then in two or three days we should all see tv coverage from independent from Russian authority news agencies. If this will happen I will surely post here that I was wrong. But I know how news agencies in Russia work, so I don't suspect it to be possible.
As for your argument that South Ossetia is not part of Georgia - it's clearly not true.
<div class='quotetop'></div>source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Ossetia (I know it's only wiki, but it's a well known fact, it should be enough).Political status
The United Nations, European Union, Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe (OSCE), Council of the European Union, North Atlantic Treaty Organization (NATO) and all other countries in the world recognize South Ossetia as part of Georgia.[/b]
Beside of that fact I admit that Georgian attack was a mistake. It was unjustified and should not happened. The thing is that it's not justifying Russia to roll it's tanks all over Georgia. It was incomparable use of force made only to penalize Georgia for it's pro-EU and pro-NATO aspirations.
IL2T - I posted when you were typing. As I said before - I need independent coverage. If this will be true, I 'll change my mind (as I wrote I don't suspect it to be possible).
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<div class='quotetop'>Цитата</div>Who cares about that legal blabber? Kosovo was also universally considered Serbian territory until separation referendum. You substitute real state of affairs with formal wiki note noone cares about. If you have the power and will to retain the territory - it's yours, that has been evident in any conflict (multiple Yugoslavia splits, USSR split, Nagorny Karabakh, Kashmir, Tamil, Kurdistan, Tibet, 2 Chechen wars).As for your argument that South Ossetia is not part of Georgia - it's clearly not true. [/b]
<div class='quotetop'>Цитата</div>Kodori Gorge is a hotspot between Abkhazia and Georgia, where active fights erupted just couple of months earlier with Georgians occuping significant part of the gorge. I doubt you can find that much peaceful citizens thereIt says that Russians shelled Kodori Gorge where lived 1500, not the Georgian soldiers camp[/b]
Also, I would recommend you to doublecheck the news provided by Georgian officials: they said Russians destroyed Supsa pipeline - lies (BP confirmed it was intact); they said Russians have captured Gori 2 days ago - lies (no Russian troops in Gori - confirmed by Western reporters); Saakashvili said Georgians destroyed 500 tanks and 21 aircraft, while killing 400 soldiers - lies on the brink of idiocy.
<div class='quotetop'>Цитата</div>lies on the brink of idiocy.[/b]- мощно задвинуто, внушает!
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